Curse

Fossa · Aug 01, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

edit again. a double post, I'll add some prices so you can discuss whhy they went down (prices are in platinum):

22 april---Today
Sup Vigor 27--- 11
Sup Heal 3.9--- .85
Sup Smit 1.5--- .37
Sup Prot 1.8--- .48
Sup DF 1.5--- .36
Black 10-11--- 6
White 6.5--- 3.2

Ecto 8.5--- 5.5
Shard 3--- 2.5

Ruby 7.5-8---6.5
Sapph 6.5--- 2
Diamond 4.3--- 5.5

Fossa · Aug 01, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

you are new so i wont simply call you a moron on that.

loot scaling had nothing to do with the sup vigor drop

HM had nothing to do with it

I followed prices on among other things Sup Vigor for a few months. April 22th (lootnerf and HM was introduced april 20th) a Sup vigor cost 27K. Now it costs 11K.
If you look at a range of commodities runes have fallen most. HM gives more gold rune drops. HM and loot scaling had very much to do with the price drop I think.

Extreme Measures · Aug 01, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro-Monk

If you are consistently making 30-40K of gold per day without farming in only a few hours, it only proves that loot-scaling did little to "balance" the game. Hackers will hack, exploiters will exploit, and botters will bot. Unfortunately, the rest of us seem to take it on the chin whenever Anet implements something to fix the unfixable.

Loot-scaling did just fine. But you and others have not learned the tricks of the trade, and how to adjust your gold digging.
Last night, in 90 minutes, I crafted 1000 glass, which I needed, and then crafted 1000 vials of ink, which yielded a 43k total profit....
I have saved all my materials, including 5000 dust, and 5000 plant fibers many times over, as I use this to craft the glass, then the ink. You have to know where to farm the dust, and where to farm the plant, and I know where you do both. Bergen Hotsprings is where I have obtained most all of the dust, and Etins Back/Drytop is where I have aquired all the plant fiber....
The cost it takes, including gold and materials, is +67 to craft 1 vial of ink. Thats the cost to make the glass, and the gold involved. A total of +67g per bottle. When you sell it for 110-120 at the rare material trader, and you do 1000 bottles per batch, thats alot of gold. It gives me a break from grinding away at the game, a break from farming, a break from pve. That is one of the reasons I never get bored in GW.... I can use this game as like being a day trader on wall street, only doing it with materials.
Yesterday, Leather Squares hit 100g on the sell side at the rare trader.. This was the first time I had seen this in almost a year. Of course, I had 2000 of these saved up over the past few months. Do the math on that one...
Aquire your raw materials, craft rare material that pays a good profit, and sell your rare material when the price peaks. Its a simple process that most are unwilling to do, because they say its boring, but yet they beg in public for people to give them stuff for free, and they dont wanna work for it. To me, that is just pathetic, and they should be out on the street corner begging for change. lol

Loviatar · Aug 01, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

I followed prices on among other things Sup Vigor for a few months. April 22th (lootnerf and HM was introduced april 20th) a Sup vigor cost 27K. Now it costs 11K.
If you look at a range of commodities runes have fallen most. HM gives more gold rune drops. HM and loot scaling had very much to do with the price drop I think.

one point.

my remark you quoted was specificlly in response to this

Quote:

All this talk of loot scaling causing lower prices is nonsense. Falling prices on sup vigors etc is 99% due to introduction of Hard Mode, nothing to do with loot scaling at all.

note that superior vigors had already dropped from 75 K to 27 K before HM was introduced

also that as the price fell more and more people bought further lowering the price.

i predict that after GWEN comes out it may get interesting as it is all level 20 content including i guess level 20 heroes who already have level 20 equipment on them

Age · Aug 01, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Measures

Loot-scaling did just fine. But you and others have not learned the tricks of the trade, and how to adjust your gold digging.
Last night, in 90 minutes, I crafted 1000 glass, which I needed, and then crafted 1000 vials of ink, which yielded a 43k total profit....
I have saved all my materials, including 5000 dust, and 5000 plant fibers many times over, as I use this to craft the glass, then the ink. You have to know where to farm the dust, and where to farm the plant, and I know where you do both. Bergen Hotsprings is where I have obtained most all of the dust, and Etins Back/Drytop is where I have aquired all the plant fiber....
The cost it takes, including gold and materials, is +67 to craft 1 vial of ink. Thats the cost to make the glass, and the gold involved. A total of +67g per bottle. When you sell it for 110-120 at the rare material trader, and you do 1000 bottles per batch, thats alot of gold. It gives me a break from grinding away at the game, a break from farming, a break from pve. That is one of the reasons I never get bored in GW.... I can use this game as like being a day trader on wall street, only doing it with materials.
Yesterday, Leather Squares hit 100g on the sell side at the rare trader.. This was the first time I had seen this in almost a year. Of course, I had 2000 of these saved up over the past few months. Do the math on that one...
Aquire your raw materials, craft rare material that pays a good profit, and sell your rare material when the price peaks. Its a simple process that most are unwilling to do, because they say its boring, but yet they beg in public for people to give them stuff for free, and they dont wanna work for it. To me, that is just pathetic, and they should be out on the street corner begging for change. lol

Most ppl are a aware of this but it take longer to do since loot scaling and most want gold per minute not per hour anyway it is no longer usefull to make parch.you can't farm trolls and good raven staffs to salvage into wood.It get boring after awhile and there is nothing that has increased the gold drops.

reetkever · Aug 01, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Enough cash for standard armor, standard weapons. If you want that vanity weapon, grow a pair and save some plat. I'm sorry, but what are you spending your cash on?????

ID/Salvage kits? - that's just pathetic
Lockpicks/keys - They've always been known to be goldsinks
Crap greens/golds - Why are you buying them?
Skills - see "ID/Savage kits"

Well? Where else is your gold going? It takes 3 farming runs, and a couple of quests and there you have 10-15k. It's not that hard.

Which other gold? Per day I get about 600 gold, that's it. And why is buying salvage kits/ID Kits and skills pathetic?

I buy greens sometimes to equip my heroes. Collector's weapons take too much time to get sometimes, depending on which collectible item the collector wants.

And I don't care if Lockpicks and keys are goldsinks. They're in the game right? They have a steady price, right? IMO, they should be for everyone to buy, and not just the rich ppl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Get some numbers. Oh, right, you don't provide any. I'll give you some then. My brother wanted to buy gold maybe 5 months back. 1000k costed $45, US.
I persuaded him away from it, but recently he wanted to do it again. Same website, 1000k costs $89. How's that for you? GG.

You just gave the proof yourself. Something is more wanted: Value goes up. If the bots didn't sell anything, they must LOWER the prices. This is not the case. Prices are way higher, so this means way more people buy gold than before.

Another hint is that suddenly, A-Net warns us about how buying gold nets us a ban, sounds to me that they're desperate, and more and more people buy gold.

Ohh, and just check some outposts - bots are alive and kicking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Spout me some more political garbage. How do the rich stay richer? They SAVE. And when they have cash, they're intelligent with it, and they power-trade around, and make good buys, and go on gold sinks when they have excess.

The rich stay richer, because most of them are hardcore farmers, and their farm runs have NOT been nerfed. Stuff like titan gems, ecto's etc is hardcore farming. The casual farm consists of 1-minute farms that nets one a few white/blue items to sell to merch.

The rich people can still farm their ecto's, titan gems now etc, because they have the recources to buy everything needed for the run, and their loot was exempt from the loot scaling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

With all the time you have spent complaining, you could have been amassing gold.

I think I told multiple times now that I CAN'T make gold anymore. I can do broken farm runs that only nets me a few items, or try and get titan gems, which requires me to first get cash for the right equipment, THEN learn how to farm, when I get a titan gem, I first gotta sell it, and THEN I have cash...

Before I did all that, Titan Gems are worth 1K if I'm lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

edit again. a double post, I'll add some prices so you can discuss whhy they went down (prices are in platinum):

22 april---Today
Sup Vigor 27--- 11 = explained above, alot of reasons for this one
Sup Heal 3.9--- .85 = I-Monking is worthless now, so way less I-Monks which buy monk runes.
Sup Smit 1.5--- .37 = Ditto
Sup Prot 1.8--- .48 = Ditto
Sup DF 1.5--- .36 = Ditto
Black 10-11--- 6 = Price was bound to drop, even without the scaling. The new dye-system made people test out, and re-dye black dyes. Now that it's not new anymore, price is going down.
White 6.5--- 3.2 = Price only used to be that high because it was new and popular. Also, people wanted to re-dye their armors because of the new dye-system, so price went up before. Now that it's over, price is lowering again.

Ecto 8.5--- 5.5 = Ecto's are overfarmed, since they are exempt from loot scaling, and the other farm runs have mostly been nerfed.
Shard 3--- 2.5 = The price always was between 3K and 2K, no big difference here.

Ruby 7.5-8---6.5 = Unstable price. Once in a while, the treasure chests refill, dropping these, and lots of ruby's/sapphires/diamonds come in the market.
Sapph 6.5--- 2 = ditto
Diamond 4.3--- 5.5 = ditto

Snow Bunny · Aug 01, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Gold prices go up not because of vast amount of customers, but because of the difficulty of farming gold with bots.

If you can only make 600g a day...where are you? Pre?

First City HM runs in Istan take 15 minutes, and net you roughly 3k. So....yea.

Omniclasm · Aug 01, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

reetkever please stop whining. If you would spend less time on here whining about how you can't make gold, and spent that time playing GW, then maybe you could afford to buy an ID kit every other day.

Fossa · Aug 01, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

note that superior vigors had already dropped from 75 K to 27 K before HM was introduced

Sorry I don't agree much. A bit of the price decrease was probably from people selling off Sup Vigor in expectation that prices would fall or just to get cash. The big decrease would have come from HM drops.
As you know Sup vigor and Absorbtion were the two high valued runes left until Arenanet decided to change what kind of runes that came from armor. Before the patch in april 2006, gold armor gave major or superior runes, after it gold armor= sup runes. With the april 2006 patch they also made sup absorbtion a rather common rune, the price fell in a few weeks. Sup vigor dropped too, to around 30-35K in a few months.
The price of sup vigor has since been stable until HM/lootnerf. (which I know because I speculated and bought a few Sup Vigors when they were at 25K one day but they never went over 35 so I sold em off 3 months later)

@reetkever: the gem prices fascinate me actually. Rubies and diamonds have been pretty stable all the time while sapphires dropped like a bomb. I was convinced that there was someone who figured out a way to farm sapphires. Diamond prices are pure speculation prices, I guess, since everyone figures they'll finally get a use in GW:EN.
As for I-monks being useless, well undead take double damage from holy damage and farming undead in HM is a sport quite a lot of people seem to do.
However people already have their I-monks finished and ready to go so there's not a lot of runes being sold I guess.

reetkever · Aug 01, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Gold prices go up not because of vast amount of customers, but because of the difficulty of farming gold with bots.

I don't think bots have difficulte farming gold. Remember, loot scaling has no effect on bots at all. They get less money per run, but they farm WAY more faster than before.

Besides, if it really was hard to make gold on GW, the bots would've gone to an other game a long time ago, instead of sticking around on GW.

And if less people are buying gold, why would A-Net be warning us? You don't just suddenly think 'Hey, let's warn the players about a random thing'. Especially if the bots are growing into less of a threat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If you can only make 600g a day...where are you? Pre?

First City HM runs in Istan take 15 minutes, and net you roughly 3k. So....yea.

15 minutes farming is WAY too long for 1 farm run. Besides, if clearing whole snake dance gives me about that amount, how can a single farm run give me the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by omniclasm

reetkever please stop whining. If you would spend less time on here whining about how you can't make gold, and spent that time playing GW, then maybe you could afford to buy an ID kit every other day.

Please don't post anything at all, if the only thing you want to do is troll. And please don't make random quotes telling me what to do, without knowing the whole situation. If I could make enough gold, why would I be posting here?

the_jos · Aug 01, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

This is true, but really, how many people use Lockpicks instead of ecto? I have yet to encounter someone who sells a high-priced item for 100K + lockpicks instead of ecto's.

It's not about trading, but saving above 1M plat in storage.
There are two ways to do that, ecto and lockpicks.
Ecto has investment risks, lockpicks don't.
For trading, ecto's are still used and I think that remains.

Quote:

edit again. a double post, I'll add some prices so you can discuss whhy they went down (prices are in platinum):

There are several reasons why prices are down.
First of all, the monk runes got a hit (before lootscaling), because the 55 was nerfed (AoE nerf). Then the loot scaling nerf made them even less wanted.
Second, there are more superior runes on the market, since they drop more in HM and are exempt from loot scaling.
Third, a lot people equipped their heroes now, lowering demand.

Quote:

You just gave the proof yourself. Something is more wanted: Value goes up. If the bots didn't sell anything, they must LOWER the prices. This is not the case. Prices are way higher, so this means way more people buy gold than before.

That's an assumption that is probably not true.
It's about supply and demand. You think demand increased, I think supply decreased.
Decreased supply is a good reason for prices to go up.
Botters have to work longer for the same amount of gold. Or invest more in GW keys (bought or stolen).

When you see bots, you know they are farming.
But you don't know if they are able to sell before they get busted.

Quote:

I think I told multiple times now that I CAN'T make gold anymore

And others told you multiple times it's still possible to make gold.
You just want 'your' way of making gold back.

You want a quick way of farming?
55HP outside of Bergen in HM. Easy run, decent cash (merch the rares or trade the upgrades).
Other option, have lvl20 hero monk work as smiter and build a 600HP monk.
The armor costs are irrelevant (lowest possible will do and you need two pieces + headset). Runes are cheap. Same location. Other locations also work. You might need to buy some skills (8k max).

If you don't have access to HM make sure you get it.
Should also net you some cash, since you don't have all missions yet.

No monk? Also not a problem. Just delete one of your characters and start a new one in Elona. There is plenty of cash and you have all quest rewards available. Heroes are included.

You don't want to waste a slot?
Figure out a hero build that can tank (bonders ftw) and nuke the enemies yourself. Probably nets less cash, but it's still income.

No skills for the heroes?
AB/RA ftw. Does not net gold!

Still not satisfied?
Play missions in HM with friends/guild.
You probably have not finished them, so the rewards (besides drops) are there.

If you say: "But I don't want to farm/play HM", then you are somewhat out of luck.
However, there is no single reason I can think of why someone would not want to farm/play in HM when he/she has access to it.
And most longtime players do have access to HM or it's not that hard to get access (remember the rewards when you finish a mission).

Loviatar · Aug 01, 2007, 08:48 PM // 20:48

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

Sorry I don't agree much. A bit of the price decrease was probably from people selling off Sup Vigor in expectation that prices would fall or just to get cash. The big decrease would have come from HM drops.
As you know Sup vigor and Absorbtion were the two high valued runes left until Arenanet decided to change what kind of runes that came from armor. Before the patch in april 2006, gold armor gave major or superior runes, after it gold armor= sup runes. With the april 2006 patch they also made sup absorbtion a rather common rune, the price fell in a few weeks. Sup vigor dropped too, to around 30-35K in a few months.

we actually seem to be fairly close on this

we agree that the vigors were once 75 K and dropped drastically after the earlier guaranteed salvage and the april 06 update

Quote:

RUNES
Increased probability of finding Superior Vigor and Superior Absorption runes.
Changed new rare (gold) armor to only provide superior (gold) runes.

the sup absorb fell like a stone as hoarders sold out and also only warrior primaries could use them hence a much smaller market to fill

the sup vigor dropped to the range we agree on 26 k for me and 30-35k for you which is close

i bought a 26 k as a bargain back then and gave it to my favorite character

so at worst we disagree on 3k but we agree that drop from 75 K to 26-30-35 K happened a few months after april 06 which is many months before the first mention of HM was even made

with a drop of over 60 per cent occuring before HM was known about i honestly dont see how HM can be given most of the credit

Omniclasm · Aug 01, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Please don't post anything at all, if the only thing you want to do is troll. And please don't make random quotes telling me what to do, without knowing the whole situation. If I could make enough gold, why would I be posting here?

People have told you they can make gold, and they have told you how. If you still can't make gold that makes you a little special and in need of a helmet perhaps? You just keep arguing how its impossible to make gold now. IT'S NOT. Either you have a really thick skull with nothing on the inside, or you are just purposely acting stupid to prove a point? People have told you how to make gold. If you are giving it all of your effort and can still only pull out 600 a day then you need to stop farming Shing Jea in NM.

Fossa · Aug 01, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

with a drop of over 60 per cent occuring before HM was known about i honestly dont see how HM can be given most of the credit

Ah sorry, I thought people were discussing the latest price drops, not the price drops since april 2005

Then I agree, the big drop from 75 to 30 was of course due to the increase in drop rate last year. The smaller drop from 30 to 11 was, imo, due to HM

MSecorsky · Aug 01, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Loot-scaling is working brilliantly, imo, because of it's introduction with Hard Mode. They work together to get the desired results. If you solo normal mode, you get the least. If you full party in Hard Mode, you make out the best. Vanquishing Elona resulted in a very nice increase in the treasury... the likes of which I never got in the past. This is due to hard mode, not scaling, because I run in full parties of eight. I've benefitted from the increase in gold drops and hardly ever went home without a full inventory of stuff.

Solo-farmers? Thanks to scaling, they should be seeing approximately 1/6 of the number of white drops and gold as in the past, which reduces gold in the market. As a result, overall prices decrease as gold value increases.

Combine the increase in the value of gold with the increase in gold I get from vanquishing... I'm having a rather good time financially. Enough so that I'm going for Skill Hunter in Elona now. You know... that's an interesting aside in itself... as you know, each cap sig is costing me 1K to buy, and cap runs tend to go fairly quickly, so you can burn a lot of gold in a hurry. However, even in normal mode (for speed), I'm not seeing my gold go down nearly as fast as I initially feared. Why? I kill my way to the boss (full parties still), pick up the drops, hit the occassional chest, etc. I'm getting enough gold just doing this to save about 40% on cap sigs (math could be off... after about 10 runs I find I have about 4 plat from quickies, which buys me four more sigs...)

Loot-scaling + hard mode + full parties = good for the average player.

reetkever · Aug 02, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Loot-scaling is working brilliantly, imo, because of it's introduction with Hard Mode. They work together to get the desired results. If you solo normal mode, you get the least. If you full party in Hard Mode, you make out the best. Vanquishing Elona resulted in a very nice increase in the treasury... the likes of which I never got in the past. This is due to hard mode, not scaling, because I run in full parties of eight. I've benefitted from the increase in gold drops and hardly ever went home without a full inventory of stuff.

Solo-farmers? Thanks to scaling, they should be seeing approximately 1/6 of the number of white drops and gold as in the past, which reduces gold in the market. As a result, overall prices decrease as gold value increases.

Yes, but it just doesn't happen enough. I can see why A-Net implented the loot scaling, but it just doesn't have effect. At least not much. Prices haven't been dropping very much, and seem to be stable now. Also, let's not forget that it are the casual gamers who farmed these white drops, so their income has been nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Combine the increase in the value of gold with the increase in gold I get from vanquishing... I'm having a rather good time financially. Enough so that I'm going for Skill Hunter in Elona now. You know... that's an interesting aside in itself... as you know, each cap sig is costing me 1K to buy, and cap runs tend to go fairly quickly, so you can burn a lot of gold in a hurry. However, even in normal mode (for speed), I'm not seeing my gold go down nearly as fast as I initially feared. Why? I kill my way to the boss (full parties still), pick up the drops, hit the occassional chest, etc. I'm getting enough gold just doing this to save about 40% on cap sigs (math could be off... after about 10 runs I find I have about 4 plat from quickies, which buys me four more sigs...)

Loot-scaling + hard mode + full parties = good for the average player.

I know this is true, too. But wouldn't it be better to just scrap the loot-scaling? It won't affect the drops for anyone playing in a full team, and people who need some extra cash, can solo-farm.

Sure, the prices of vanity weapons might increase a bit, but we ourselves can also help this. Why not just stop buying for these ridiculous prices? Why not just all demand the item to be sold for 50K?

And the bots are our own responsibility, too. If we just stop buying, bots will be out of buisness. And when do people stop buying online gold? Exactly, when they can get enough gold on their own. Instead of limiting our drops, making us drown in them would be better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by omniclasm

People have told you they can make gold, and they have told you how. If you still can't make gold that makes you a little special and in need of a helmet perhaps? You just keep arguing how its impossible to make gold now. IT'S NOT. Either you have a really thick skull with nothing on the inside, or you are just purposely acting stupid to prove a point? People have told you how to make gold. If you are giving it all of your effort and can still only pull out 600 a day then you need to stop farming Shing Jea in NM.

First off, please just discuss in a topic without attempts of flaming and trolling.

Second off, do you think I didn't try these farm runs? It's just that they net me nothing special. Only a few whites, some gold, and some crappy gold items which I can't sell, anyway. Of course, it depends on the run. In some runs, I get way more cash, but they also take way longer.

Alot of the other farm runs include farming for specific items, which never worked for me. The selling of the item after the farm run also takes alot of time, and most of the time, you end up decreasing your price, cause else nobody buys.

The situation is: I don't have a long time to play, since most of the time, the pc is occupied, or I am at work. When I play Guild Wars, I want to be free in what I do, and not be restricted by cash. This is where the troll runs used to come in. I started the Guild Wars time with farming for 5 minutes. The loot from that kept me entertained for the rest of the day.

Now, however, I either have to spend half my time farming, or spend half my time farming, and the other half (and more) trying to sell an item.

When I say I make 600 gold per day, by the way, that is WITHOUT farming.

Loviatar · Aug 02, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

This is where the troll runs used to come in. I started the Guild Wars time with farming for 5 minutes. The loot from that kept me entertained for the rest of the day.

as you said earlier a troll run got you about 5 K IN THAT 5 MINUTES.

WANT THAT NEW 15 k SET OF ARMOR 2 HOURS OF THOSE 5 MNUTE RUNS GIVES YOU 120 k TO BUY THE RARE MATERIALS AND THE PIDDLIG TO YOU 75 k ARMOR

bots can do the same quick run 24 hours a day so good riddence.

reet you are not even close to being a casusl player so stop trying to say this is killing casual players.

casual players reet are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill time or keep up with the jones

they are looking for the next mission/quest not the next set of 15 K

reddswitch · Aug 02, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

The whiners whining about people 'whining' about loot scaling is funny. For every post you post here or elsewhere there're people posting how badly loot scaling has affected them or their guildmates in game or on forums. Stop pointing out how much that useless crap has dropped down to and look at things most people actually use.

I stand by farming as the true way to make money. After your campaign is done and all there's only farming if you're only pveing.
Non-farming methods of getting by are limited, quests and missions. Once they're done they're done! Only exception being a few repeatable ones, but once you repeat it's called farming! :O How does that not make sense???
Grinding for titles or whatever...grind equals farming to me. If you can't see how that is I won't be able to dumb it down for you.
The method of changing common materials to rare materials was a nice option but you have to farm for the materials anyway. You also have to allow time for people to buy up the materials to not get only cost back.

I'd comment about rich this and rich that but I rather stick to the subject and not really Reetkever's objective. Loot scaling does not help casual players. It either makes it worse or changes nothing supposedly. If you're already advanced and sated in the stage you're in and are now playing casually, just building up worthless wealth congrats, this doesn't really concern you. Everyone will reach that stage eventually. It'll take true casual players much longer to reach that same spot than before.

Loviatar · Aug 02, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddswitch

I stand by farming as the true way to make money. After your campaign is done and all there's only farming if you're only pveing.

IM FINISHED .........WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW
IVE BEATEN THE GAME............WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW WHAT
IM BORED AFTER BEATING THE GAME....WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW

you have to farm or else...........what??

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma Song

Sure, casual players can afford non-elite armors just as well as they could before, but who wants those?

you will be looked down on by your elitest peers .........oh noesss

play for fun than do something else for a break?........unthinkable

reetkever · Aug 02, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

as you said earlier a troll run got you about 5 K IN THAT 5 MINUTES.

WANT THAT NEW 15 k SET OF ARMOR 2 HOURS OF THOSE 5 MNUTE RUNS GIVES YOU 120 k TO BUY THE RARE MATERIALS AND THE PIDDLIG TO YOU 75 k ARMOR

bots can do the same quick run 24 hours a day so good riddence.

reet you are not even close to being a casusl player so stop trying to say this is killing casual players.

If I'm not casual, then what am I? Am I a hardcore farmer?

And who really cares about how much gold bots make? If gold was easy to obtain in this game, we wouldn't even need to buy gold from them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

casual players reet are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill time or keep up with the jones

they are looking for the next mission/quest not the next set of 15 K

Ehm, no. Casual players are players who don't spend all their time farming, but do other stuff instead. This does NOT mean that they ONLY do the same storyline OVER and OVER again, WITHOUT doing ANYTHING else.

Also, casual players ALSO want to do other stuff. I'm a regular human, not too rich, not too poor. This does not mean I don't WANT a brand new car, a big house and lots of cash.

Casual players don't always do quests and missions, I don't think ANYONE who plays guild wars just does quests and missions and nothing else.

Besides, cash is part of the game, too. So when you're farming, or buying stuff, you ARE playing the game. If your vision on casual players was correct, then the game was rather rotten, having all these things in the game, without anyone using them. Fact is: Stuff like chests are in the game to be used. If the game was just about doing the storyline, the whole drop/gold system would never have been implented in the game.

Oh and another thing - killing monsters in a quest, or just for farming... How is it different? We're all doing the same grind, wether you call it 'storyline' or 'farm run', the whole game is about killing monsters. There is no way to 'not play the game'.